Fighter Types and Strategies - by NKM
Fighter Types and Strategies - Written by Nicholas "Knuckles" Marsolo, April 9, 2002 Well, I figured I'd start with a bunch of fighter types, based on the way their stats layout. I'm not pretending to be some sort of TBG "Master" or anything, so don't interpret anything I say as my ego spouting off... now that's somewhat of an egotistical way to put it, but what I mean is I'm not trying to sound cocky or condescending if parts of this are really "dumb" - due to the BBS response, I'm sending it to a bunch of you whom I don't know, thus I don't know where you're at in the game. So... I'm going to spend about 2 hours on this, here's a brief "outline" of sorts: FIGHTER TYPES Ok. Here's what you're fighting with, what they tend to look like, and what you can do with them. Many of the long-time pros categorize fighters into three or so main categories; sluggers, balanced fighters, and dancers - for that reason, and simplicity, I'll use the same main three. *In General* You can go by this categorization: Sluggers: Strength/Agility +8 or more Balanced: Strength/Agility -6 to +8 Dancers: Strength/Agility -6 or less I'll expand on some variations within those three categories as well, and later I'll even take it one step further... At different weight classes, the same "types" of fighters will look very different, and certain styles of fighters invariably tend to have higher levels of success. That is NOT to say that just about ANY type of well-managed fighter cannot be successful at any weight class! I will get into the differences at different weight classes (outside just height) at the end in the "pearls" section. For now, just plain 'ol fighter types. > SLUGGERS First of all, there are several "general" different types of sluggers. Note the quotation marks ;) These are STILL a bit general... In general, sluggers obviously try to knock out their opponents more often than not, although there are lots of different ways to go about it. "Cannonball" Sluggers These tend to be the most unbalances as far as APs go. They should be as short as possible for their division, since they'll most often use clinch in fights, and height advantage is a detriment to good clinching. Of all the sluggers, these tend to have the largest strength/agility ratio (S/A) and thus the lowest agility. They're deadly when well managed against taller dancers and slappers, but because of their low agility combined often with low speed, they have a hell of a time against more agile sluggers and well-managed balanced fighters. FOR FUTURE REFERENCE... I'll be using Lightweight fighters for the rest of this as examples, since it's "right in the middle" =) Cannonball Strength: 28 => You'll get most of your advantages here Speed: 9 => One-third of your strength is a minimum (i did the math...) Agility: 9 => You could go much lower, but other sluggers will kill you if they know what they're doing Tough: 11 => Judge this yourself. Too much = death with any slugger. Keep enough to outlast your foes Height: 4'10" (-4) => As low as possible to make weight Weight: 138 => 138 in this case, with a stocky build. lower agility for str, or up his build, and he's a welter Sheer strength is what wins fights here. Unless you train them up in speed, which usually happens at a cost to agility or strength, you won't be winning many decisions. And you shouldn't, because sluggers like this with a lot of speed are dead meat. They have such a low agility that they can't even protect themselves enough with clinch to kill balanced fighters or dancers with some strength. What you need to maintain is enough speed here to occasionally steal a round flailing if need be, but usually just enough to maximize your damage. Landing too few punches (although 0 punches landed can do damage...) ruins the damage given vs. damage taken ratio in a lot of fights. Plus some people will be able to just dance right by you on points. Balanced Slugger Str: 24 Speed: 11 => *around* 1/2 str Agility: 11 => *around* 1/2 str Tgh: 11 Height: 4'10 again... heavier build to make up for weight at creation Balanced sluggers have a lot more options than the more extreme sluggers in most fights. Since they have a higher agility than the cannonballs, they crush them. (See the tips/pearls section on all these claims i'm making)... Balanced sluggers also may find that they have little chance of bowling over certain fighters, in which case they posess enough agility and speed to outflail a more agile fighter who's not looking for it. Balanced sluggers are the "all around" slugger, because most of the time they stand a decent chance in a fight. They too, are prone to the "rule of sluggers" (again... later) Agile Slugger Str: 22 Spd: 10 => tend to have a little less than balanced over a career, but never start TOO low... Agi: 14 Tgh: 11 Height: 4'10 again, maybe a little taller than the other sluggers to make up for weight again... Agile sluggers are an interesting bunch. Outside strength, the lover of all sluggers, their next objective is to be agile as well. Agile sluggers eat all other types of sluggers up in most fights. They're know to rip the hell out of balanced fighters too, if they have enough agility to overpower them on damage differential. Because of the higher agility, these guys can get advantages out of inside more often than other types, because they get the same strength bonus but don't drop as low in agility from the penalty. They still usually have more speed than the cannonballs, but probably not quite as much as the balanced guys due to training more heavily towards agility. Speed Slugger I'm not going to keep pounding out stats... Basically, a speed slugger has more speed than other sluggers, enabling them to steal rounds from dancers. They're also great at getting more agile fighters to raise their aggression to avoid losing on the scorecards, enabling a speed slugger with good timing to pound away while their opponent's defense is down. These guys fade out dramatically in the higher weights though, because the number of slower, and thus stronger, more agile sluggers is higher and these guys are dead meat against a slower slugger. Think about it... If your opponent has the same number of APs and same height, and you're 5 points faster, he's probably got more strength than you, more agility than you, or both! Speed sluggers MUST keep enough agility to survive other sluggers, since in a slugger vs. slugger fight, speed does you little good. It's probably not going 12 rounds, and you could use the APs elsewhere much more effectively. Against dancers and slappers, however, you can either blow them out of the water, or flail right by them on points very often, as long as you make sure to wear them down. Tall Slugger This is a pretty rare bird in the world of Pro - TBG, outside the heaviest divisions. Tall sluggers can be very effective in the heavy weight classes, because the APs everyone has to spend on height to reach weight mean lower "skill" APs, like str and speed. Tall sluggers can do pretty well against balanced fighters, provided they have some speed, and also fare well against short sluggers with lower agility, since they get a big height advantage from styles, and have the strength to hurt a slugger back. In the number-driven world of TBG, unfortunately, this type rarely works out in my opinion. Being a slugger means you're trying to wear someone down and KO them usually. Adding height may lower a taller opponent's height advantage, but it also lowers your own strength and agility. Thus you'll have a harder time of wearing down dancers and slappers, and less speed to outslap them... Just my opinion, but their success is very limited in TBG. > "Balanced" Fighters Balanced fighters tend to be taller than sluggers (not in the lower weights) and are essentially more "well rounded". They require the most attention of any fighter, but that's the price you pay for essentially having a chance in almost every fight you face. Their value is in their versatility. You can trade rounds with more agile fighters, stealing some and pounding in others to keep it close, and then steal it or go for broke at the end. Against sluggers, you'll have enough strength to keep a slugger from opening up on you too much at his own expense, and enough agility to keep him at bay until he does. And against other balanced fighters, well, what's more even than that? In order to win though, you'll have to pay close attention to every fight, and spar your ass off... Strong Balanced Pretty obvious. More strength than agility, but not a slugger. These guys can do it anywhere. Actually, due to shorter heights, and thus more "skill" APs going around, balanced fighters can really tear it up the in the lower weight classes. In general, the "Tall Slugger" mentioned before is essentially a strong balanced fighter. The height used to make a tall slugger uses up enough APs to lower the s/a into the 0-8 range, any higher at taller heights leaves you with no agility. So... these guys fade out in the taller weight classes. Not enough str to KO a careful slugger outright, not enough agility to out-wait them and have anything left. From about featherweights on down, look out for these guys. A strong balanced fighter with a lot of speed in the lower weights can often still have enough agility APs to survive against sluggers, and they're MURDER on fast dancers. I've even won fights by just entering 8/8/4 (inside) for the whole fight. If they raise their agility enough to outland that, they're going to get beat to hell. The reason these guys are "balanced" and not "tall sluggers" is because they're, well, balanced... They have more agility than a tall slugger, and more speed too. True Balanced This would be your classic 12 12 12 12 guy, for instance... all stats are pretty close. Since they have more agility, and probably about the same speed as the strong balanced, they find much more success at the higher weight classes. Fighters with str:agi:spd pretty close to even invariably are the MOST versatile, but requre the most attention, even of the balanced fighters. This is a little to simple to delve into for identification's sake... Agile Balanced These guys hang on the edge between balanced fighters and dancers. Usually, they keep the s/a within the -2 to -6 range, and the speed somewhere in between those two. These guys are awesome, when properly managed, at any weight class. They can have a tough time against slappers and very agile dancers, but they're probably the most slugger-proof of any fighter. They can hang in, take rounds, rest, drink, eat, whatever... ...until the end of a fight, when they're ahead and still in good shape to knock an allout-ing slugger back into their own corner. They can get away with a little more speed than the other balanced guys too, in my opinion, because of the added evasiveness of more agility. => DANCERS Strong Dancers These guys share a hazy border with the agile balanced above. I tend to think of them as the same, I'm being anal about listing them for the purpose of clarity. Just a little bit more speed, and less strength. Can still hang in great with sluggers, but due to more agility, they have better odds against more balanced fighters, and more ability to stay in a fight with a more agile dancer/slapper. Balanced Dancers Ahh... my favorite. Good against sluggers. Good against balanced fighters. Good against other dancers, although other dancers would be the toughest. Since this is ALL my opinion, the whole damned thing, I'll define these guys like this, since they're my specialty: they tend to follow *about* a 2:3:4 ratio... I.E. - 10 str 15 spd 20 agi ***Ive been purposefully leaving out toughness, keep enough for your own tastes. ***Ideally, you must have enough... but too much will start to take away str/spd/agi and hurt you... Balanced dancers are still in good shape against sluggers. You can't toe-to-toe with them obviously, but you CAN win rounds and stay healthy enough to either win by decision, or catch an opponent allout-ing on you. You'll need to find the right balance on your way up the rankings, and from the start even... The idea is to keep just enough strength to keep a slugger fight even enough to prevail on an allout attempt at the end. The rest of your focus should be on speed, agility, and toughness. Don't get your speed too high compared to your agility early on, because even with enough strength, without enough agility you won't be around at the end of a fight to take on a slugger. This strategy turns on you somewhat when you face a slapper (see below), but slappers have a ton of their own problems, and you still have a chance if you think up a clever plan. Agile Dancers (SLAPPERS!!!) I hate them. Often, they have no strength. They don't live by the KO, they die by it. Basically, slappers load up on agility, so that they can avoid sluggers if they meet one. They'll just try to slap by and cover up for the decision. Outside agility, all the training is focused on speed and toughness. More speed than tgh though... Against other dancers, they're usually faster and more agile. That means screwed if you don't have the speed to outland them, the strength to KO them, or enough of both to throw them off and out-think them. They're great for starters though, requiring often brain-dead planning as far as FPs go. They tend to get what they deserve against sluggers. Having whizzed by dancers and a lot of balanced fighters, they take it up the kazoo from sluggers... they can run, but without being able to damage sluggers back, they usually can't outrun the pain and end up red smears on the canvas. A further explanation (as requested) about trouble against sluggers with a tall slugger. Here's the root of the problem. In any given fight, with the same total APs, it's the bonuses from style usage that make the big difference. In this matchup, for example: YOU 16 strength 24 strength 12 speed Vs. 12 speed 10 agility 10 agility 12 toughness 12 toughness 6 height (5'8") -2 height (5'0") YOU are going to get smoked. Even with your 8" height advantage, he's gaining more style bonuses. Because of the APs you used in height, he has a similar agility, more strength, and if he's trying to wear you down and KO you, the speed wouldn't matter... In this case, if you had more speed, he'd have you even worse... You basically have only two options that are better than no style at all: Ring - You'd gain 1.5 agility plus 50% of ZERO agility advantage, so just the 1.5 - AND you'll lose 15% of your strength Outside - You'd gain 25% of height adv (2) in both speed and agility - AND you'll lose 15% of your strength Given these two options, you'll either gain: 1.5 agility with ring - or - 2 agility and 1.5 speed with outside Basically it's the same from a defensive standpoint either way. Extra speed is going to do you no good against a stronger slugger trying to KO you anyhow. You technically gain a half point more agility with outside in this case, but if you spar it, you'll probably find it'll be of little help in this matchup barring stupidity from your opponent. If your opponent allouts, however, using outside, ALL your height advantage will go to speed, none to agility. So that could kill you... MEANWHILE, the slugger opponent you're facing can use: Clinch - He'd gain 1.5 agility, plus 50% of his 8 str advantage. He's gaining 5.5 agility total. Inside - Against a tall slugger guy with str like YOU, he'd better not do it early. Basically, your opponents are using clinch, wearing you down, and taking you out. Now you can see why. It might not exactly mimic real life boxing, but unless your height advantage is HUGE at TBG in this matchup, you're going to have a rough time. As you can see, after the style bonuses, he suddenly has !4! more agility points than you, assuming you use ring or outside, at no cost to his strength, while you lose 15%. So you're down a lot in abilities in this case after styles. Options? Well, if you have more agility than him, even by 1 or 2, you could try a hard chase early before you're dead, going at his head. If he's going to the body, you could KO him outright. Unless you spar it and have enough agility to stay with him long enough for the KO, you'd better fight these as defensively as possible. USE AS LOW OF AN AGGRESSION AS YOU CAN TO WIN ROUNDS! If you only need 24 punches to win a round, throwing 40 is WASTED energy. HERE'S A PEARL FOR YOU GUYS. PLAN YOUR FIGHTS BY IT, LIVE BY IT. DO IT WELL, AND YOU'LL SEE WHAT I MEAN... Endurance is the most important thing in TBG. Not necessarily having a higher total of it, but managing it wisely in your fights. In any fight, the better shape you can keep your fighter in towards the end, the better. Slugger vs. slugger, being "healthier" by mid-point in a 12-round fight is almost a locked win unless cuts screw you. Slugger vs. dancer, the "healthier" you are compared to your opponent throughout the fight, the more damage they take in comparison to what you recieve. And how good a chance you have to KO them at the end. In agile fights, as in dancer vs. dancer, balanced vs. dancer, or any combination of these, endurance won't mean the difference between a KO or not, but it greatly affects your speed when you're slapping it out. If you can stay close in a fight like that, winning only what you need to in order to prevent your opponent putting it out of reach, you may find that at the end, you can win rounds even though you're "slower" - because you're less tired. Take this for an example: fighter 1 fighter 2 10 str 6 str 15 spd 18 spd 20 agi 21 agi Fighter 2 is obviously much faster than fighter 1, and more agile too. In a points race, all things being equal, same height, fighter 2 is going to outland fighter 1. BUT. It's the 12th round. It's all tied up. Fighter 1, although slower, took rounds when needed, and saved endurance. Fighter 2 did a poorer job of maintaining endurance, although faster. If figher 1 has 80% of his endurance left, his speed is actually 12 and his agility is actually 16. They're both reduced by 20%. This all equals out, if fighter 2 also has 80% left. The stats used that round are both reduced by 20%, so you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. NOW HOLD ON ;) Back to that BUT: Fighter 1 maintained 80% of his endurance going into the 12th rd. Fighter 2 wore down more, to 60% of his starting endurance. In the 12th round, figure that... it's tied. Fighter 1 Fighter 2 80% x 15 spd = 12 spd 60% x 18 spd = 10.8 spd 80% x 20 agi = 16 agi 60% x 21 agi = 12.6 agi If you both throw the same aggression, fighter 1 easily won the 12th rd and the decision, even though he's "slower" AND "less agile"... If you're too slow to win, in ANY type of fight that's going to be a decision, try to make up for the difference by taking away your opponent's agility. If and when you figure out how to get your opponent to give up more endurance to you than they should, you can pull out any fight. I just edited this writeup here at the end of May, and realized I'd written a lot more on this subject here than I recalled ;) As you see, I wasn't kidding. The third writeup is entirely on this topic.